2008 美國總統競選第一場辯論中英文對照

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:15:13

作者是貓眼上的一個ID，收集帖子的時候把他ID給忘了，汗！把全文扒到自己論壇上，方便轉載。另外作者是看著辯論錄像編譯的，翻譯不一定精確，各位不要期望過高，全部內容大約近50個回復帖，現在開始帖！

LEHRER: Good evening from the Ford Center for the Performing Arts at the University of Mississippi in Oxford. I'm Jim Lehrer of the NewsHour on PBS, and I welcome you to the first of the 2008 presidential debates between the Republican nominee, Senator John McCain of Arizona, and the Democratic nominee, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois.

主持人：晚上好，這裡是牛津密西西比大學的表演藝術中心。我是來自公共廣播公司《新聞時間》的吉姆.拉勒爾。我歡迎你們來到2008年首場總統競選辯論。兩位總統候選人是來自亞利桑那州的共和黨提名人——議員約翰.麥凱恩，和來自伊利諾斯州的民主黨提名人——議員貝拉克.奧巴馬。

(註：牛津，密西西比南部一城市，位於田納西州孟斐斯東南偏南。是密西西比大學的所在地（老密西），建於1844年，它是威廉姆·福克納的家鄉。人口9,882)

The Commission on Presidential Debates is the sponsor of this event and the three other presidential and vice presidential debates coming in October.

總統競選辯論委員會是這次辯論以及即將在10月份的另外三次總統競選辯論和副總統競選辯論的主辦者。

Tonight's will primarily be about foreign policy and national security, which, by definition, includes the global financial crisis. It will be divided roughly into nine-minute segments.

今晚的話題將主要圍繞外交政策和國家安全。其中，國家安全包括了這次全球金融危機。我們將大概以9分鐘為一段（辯論）。

Direct exchanges between the candidates and moderator follow-ups are permitted after each candidate has two minutes to answer the lead question in an order determined by a coin toss.

我們將用擲硬幣的辦法來決定誰先回答引導問題。在兩位候選人分別回答完後，可以進行直接交流。主持人也可以進一步追問。

The specific subjects and questions were chosen by me. They have not been shared or cleared with anyone.

具體的主題和問題都由我決定。它們從未被（我）向任何人披露或解釋。

The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent, no cheers, no applause, no noise of any kind, except right now, as we welcome Senators Obama and McCain.

大廳中的觀眾都已經承諾保持沉默，即不歡呼，不鼓掌，不發出任何形式的噪音。除了現在——讓我們歡迎議員奧巴馬和麥凱恩。

(APPLAUSE)
（鼓掌）

Let me begin with something General Eisenhower said in his 1952 presidential campaign. Quote, "We must achieve both security and solvency. In fact, the foundation of military strength is economic strength," end quote.

讓我以艾森豪威爾將軍在1952年總統競選時說過的一句話開始：「我們必須獲得安全和財務償還能力。事實上，軍事實力的基礎就是經濟實力。」

With that in mind, the first lead question.

在腦中記住這個，讓我們開始第一個引導問題。

Gentlemen, at this very moment tonight, where do you stand on the financial recovery plan?

先生們，在今晚這個特別的時刻，你們在金融拯救計劃中站在哪裡？

First response to you, Senator Obama. You have two minutes.

第一個回答問題的是你，議員奧巴馬。你有兩分鐘時間。

OBAMA: Well, thank you very much, Jim, and thanks to the commission and the University of Mississippi, Ole Miss, for hosting us tonight. I can't think of a more important time for us to talk about the future of the country.

奧巴馬：好的，非常感謝你，吉姆，也感謝（總統競選辯論）委員會，感謝密西西比大學今晚容納我們。我無法想像我們還有比今晚討論這個國家的未來的更重要的時刻了。

You know, we are at a defining moment in our history. Our nation is involved in two wars, and we are going through the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

你們知道，我們現在正處於我們歷史上的一個決定性時刻。我們的民族被涉入兩場戰爭（註：伊拉克戰爭和阿富汗戰爭），而我們正在經歷自經濟大蕭條（註：1929年）以來最糟糕的金融危機。

And although we've heard a lot about Wall Street, those of you on Main Street I think have been struggling for a while, and you recognize that this could have an impact on all sectors of the economy.

儘管我們聽說了相當多關於華爾街的事情，但你們那些在城鎮主街上的人們（註：這裡指美國城鎮和鄉村的典型居民）已經在（艱難地）努力了一段時間。你們都知道這（金融危機）也許會影響到經濟的方方面面。

And you're wondering, how's it going to affect me? How's it going to affect my job? How's it going to affect my house? How's it going to affect my retirement savings or my ability to send my children to college?

你們想要知道，它（金融危機）如何影響到我？如何影響到我的工作？如何影響到我的住宅？如何影響到我的退休金儲蓄或者是送我孩子上大學的能力？

So we have to move swiftly, and we have to move wisely. And I've put forward a series of proposals that make sure that we protect taxpayers as we engage in this important rescue effort.

所以我們必須得即刻就行動了，而且我們得要明智地行動。我已經提出一系列的建議，以確保當我們從事這項重要的（金融）拯救行動時，納稅人（的權益）得到保護。

Number one, we've got to make sure that we've got oversight over this whole process; $700 billion, potentially, is a lot of money.

首先，我們必須確保整個過程有仔細的監督。可能（被國會通過）的7000億美元是一筆相當大的數額。

Number two, we've got to make sure that taxpayers, when they are putting their money at risk, have the possibility of getting that money back and gains, if the market -- and when the market returns.

第二，我們必須確保納稅人現在冒著風險投入的錢有可能拿回來並增加，只要市場——且當市場回復（正常）時。

Number three, we've got to make sure that none of that money is going to pad CEO bank accounts or to promote golden parachutes.

第三，我們必須確保（這些錢）一分錢也不能變成CEO的銀行賬戶或者成為黃金保護傘（註：企業的高級管理層或離任的政府官員在失去他們原來的工作後，在經濟上給予其豐厚保障的安排）。

And, number four, we've got to make sure that we're helping homeowners, because the root problem here has to do with the foreclosures that are taking place all across the country.

第四，我們必須確保我們正在幫助住宅所有者，因為問題的根源與在這個國家到處都在發生的無力償付房貸有關。

Now, we also have to recognize that this is a final verdict on eight years of failed economic policies promoted by George Bush, supported by Senator McCain, a theory that basically says that we can shred regulations and consumer protections and give more and more to the most, and somehow prosperity will trickle down.

現在，我們也必須承認這（金融危機）就是對議員麥凱恩所支持的喬治.布什這八年來失敗的經濟政策的最終裁決。（他們的）一個理論主要宣稱的是我們可以撕碎（市場）管理和消費者保護，只要給予越來越多的（自由）直到極致，然後繁榮昌盛就會從天上掉下來。

It hasn't worked. And I think that the fundamentals of the economy have to be measured by whether or not the middle class is getting a fair shake. That's why I'm running for president, and that's what I hope we're going to be talking about tonight.

（他們的）理論根本沒有起過作用。而我認為經濟的基礎應該以中產階級是否能進行公平交易作為衡量標準。這就是為什麼我在競選總統，這也是我所希望今晚我們將所討論的。

[ Last edited by punkxxx on 2008-10-23 21:21 ]

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:15:43

LEHRER: Senator McCain, two minutes.

主持人：麥凱恩議員，兩分鐘。

MCCAIN: Well, thank you, Jim. And thanks to everybody.

麥凱恩：好的，謝謝你，吉姆。謝謝所有人。

And I do have a sad note tonight. Senator Kennedy is in the hospital. He's a dear and beloved friend to all of us. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the lion of the Senate.

今晚我還有一個令人遺憾的消息：肯尼迪議員住院了。他是我們最親愛的一個朋友。讓我們向議會的雄獅表達掛念和祈禱。

I also want to thank the University of Mississippi for hosting us tonight.

我也要感謝今晚容納我們的密西西比大學。

And, Jim, I -- I've been not feeling too great about a lot of things lately. So have a lot of Americans who are facing challenges. But I'm feeling a little better tonight, and I'll tell you why.

而吉姆，我——我近來一直對很多事情感到不滿。許多面臨困難的美國人們也和我一樣。然而今晚我感覺稍微好些了，我會告訴你為什麼。

Because as we're here tonight in this debate, we are seeing, for the first time in a long time, Republicans and Democrats together, sitting down, trying to work out a solution to this fiscal crisis that we're in.

這是因為我們在今晚這場辯論上，我們看到，這是相當長一段時間以來第一次共和黨人和民主黨人坐下來，嘗試作出一個我們所面臨的金融危機的解決方案。

（註：我認為麥凱恩此言，意在抨擊民主黨人的「不合作」。當然，這個「不合作」是由他所定義的。）

And have no doubt about the magnitude of this crisis. And we're not talking about failure of institutions on Wall Street. We're talking about failures on Main Street, and people who will lose their jobs, and their credits, and their homes, if we don't fix the greatest fiscal crisis, probably in -- certainly in our time, and I've been around a little while.

我們毫不懷疑這次危機的危害性。我們現在不是在討論華爾街那些機構的破產，我們是在討論城鎮主街上（那些人）的破產。如果我們不解決掉這次重大的財政危機，也許——不，毫無疑問地，在我們的有生之年，人們將失去他們的工作，他們的銀行存款和他們的家。（笑）我已經伴隨（金融危機）一段時間了。

But the point is -- the point is, we have finally seen Republicans and Democrats sitting down and negotiating together and coming up with a package.

但重點是——重點是，我們終於看到了，共和黨人和民主黨人坐下來一起磋商並將提出一系列方案（註：由於找不到中文對應於package的這個意思，只好用一系列方案來代替了）。

This package has transparency in it. It has to have accountability and oversight. It has to have options for loans to failing businesses, rather than the government taking over those loans. We have to -- it has to have a package with a number of other essential elements to it.

這些方案應該有透明性。它們應該可以落實責任和監管。它們應該包括轉讓衰退中的生意的債權，而不是讓政府直接接管這些債權。我們必須——不，這些方案還應當包括許多其他的必需元素。

And, yes, I went back to Washington, and I met with my Republicans in the House of Representatives. And they weren't part of the negotiations, and I understand that. And it was the House Republicans that decided that they would be part of the solution to this problem.

還有，我回了一趟華盛頓，並會見了眾議院的共和黨議員們。他們並沒有參與磋商，我理解。是共和黨議會決定，他們也將是解決這次（金融危機）問題的一部分。

But I want to emphasize one point to all Americans tonight. This isn't the beginning of the end of this crisis. This is the end of the beginning, if we come out with a package that will keep these institutions stable.

但今晚我想對所有的美國人強調一點。現在不是金融危機尾聲的序幕。即使我們拿出一系列解決方案使得那些（金融）機構穩定，現在也只是金融危機序幕的尾聲。

And we've got a lot of work to do. And we've got to create jobs. And one of the areas, of course, is to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.

我們還有很多事情要做。我們得創造就業崗位。而創造就業崗位中一件（要做的）事情就是消除我們對外國石油的依賴。

（註：個人以為麥凱恩在最後幾句話裡渲染金融危機的嚴重性，然後稍微透露一點「宏圖和前景」，企圖加強美國人對他的依賴感。很古老的招數，但政客們都在用。）

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:16:00

LEHRER: All right, let's go back to my question. How do you all stand on the recovery plan? And talk to each other about it. We've got five minutes. We can negotiate a deal right here.

主持人：好的，讓我們回到我的問題。你們兩位在經濟救援計劃中站在哪邊？直接告訴對方。我們還有5分鐘。我們現在就可以在這裡商討出一個結果。

But, I mean, are you -- do you favor this plan, Senator Obama, and you, Senator McCain? Do you -- are you in favor of this plan?

我（先前的）意思是，你們支持這個（經濟救援）計劃嗎？奧巴馬議員，還有你，麥凱恩議員？你支持這個計劃嗎？

OBAMA: We haven't seen the language yet. And I do think that there's constructive work being done out there. So, for the viewers who are watching, I am optimistic about the capacity of us to come together with a plan.

奧巴馬：我們還沒有看到這個計劃。我認為在（國會）正在進行一項建設性的工作。所以，我想對觀眾們說，我對我們一起提出一項計劃的能力表示樂觀。

（註：奧巴馬這裡迴避了主持人的問題。他還是沒有說他究竟是支持還是不支持。他的回答是一個non-answer，我們稱為打太極、不表態。）

The question, I think, that we have to ask ourselves is, how did we get into this situation in the first place?

問題是，我在想，我們應該問問我們自己的是，我們是如何首次進入這種狀況的？

Two years ago, I warned that, because of the subprime lending mess, because of the lax regulation, that we were potentially going to have a problem and tried to stop some of the abuses in mortgages that were taking place at the time.

兩年前，我就警告過，由於次級貸款的混亂，由於鬆懈的管理，我們可能正在走向潛伏的問題。我還試圖阻止一些當時抵押的濫用。

Last year, I wrote to the secretary of the Treasury to make sure that he understood the magnitude of this problem and to call on him to bring all the stakeholders together to try to deal with it.

去年，我寫信給財政部長，以確信他意識到這個問題的嚴重性。我呼籲他召集投資人設法解決這個問題。

So -- so the question, I think, that we've got to ask ourselves is, yes, we've got to solve this problem short term. And we are going to have to intervene; there's no doubt about that.

所以，這個我們詢問自己的問題，我認為，我們應該在短期內解決金融問題。我們需要干涉了，不容懷疑。

But we're also going to have to look at, how is it that we shredded so many regulations? We did not set up a 21st-century regulatory framework to deal with these problems. And that in part has to do with an economic philosophy that says that regulation is always bad.

但我們也需要看看，是什麼讓我們撕裂了那麼多的（金融）管理？我們沒有設立一個21世紀的管理框架來處理這些問題。而這（金融危機）部分地與一種經濟理念有關。這種經濟理念說（金融）管理總是壞的。

（註：奧巴馬不但迴避了問題，而且開始了強烈地對布什政府，以及支持布什政府的麥凱恩議員的抨擊，認為他們的觀念有問題。）

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:18:01

you can not miss

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:22:50

LEHRER: Are you going to vote for the plan, Senator McCain?

主持人：你會支持（金融拯救）計劃嗎，麥凱恩議員？

MCCAIN: I -- I hope so. And I...

麥凱恩：我——我希望是，而且我……

LEHRER: As a United States senator...

主持人：作為一位美國的議員……

MCCAIN: Sure.

麥凱恩：當然。

LEHRER: ... you're going to vote for the plan?

主持人：……你是說你會投票支持這個計劃？

MCCAIN: Sure. But -- but let me -- let me point out, I also warned about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and warned about corporate greed and excess, and CEO pay, and all that. A lot of us saw this train wreck coming.

麥凱恩：當然。但是——請讓我——讓我指出來，我同樣也警告過了聯邦抵押協會和聯邦房貸抵押機構，警告過了（金融）企業的貪婪和無度，還有CEO的（高）薪水，所有這些。我們很多人都看到了這火車即將來臨的失事。

（註：Fannie Mae = Federal National Mortgage Association, Freddie Mac = Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation)

But there's also the issue of responsibility. You've mentioned President Dwight David Eisenhower. President Eisenhower, on the night before the Normandy invasion, went into his room, and he wrote out two letters.

但這裡同樣要考慮責任的問題。你（主持人）提到了總統德懷特.大衛.艾森豪威爾。艾森豪威爾總統在進攻諾曼底的前夜，走進他的房間，寫了兩封信。

One of them was a letter congratulating the great members of the military and allies that had conducted and succeeded in the greatest invasion in history, still to this day, and forever.

其中一封信是慶祝部隊和盟軍中的傑出成員成功地完成了歷史上最偉大的一次進攻，到現在，直到永遠。

And he wrote out another letter, and that was a letter of resignation from the United States Army for the failure of the landings at Normandy.

他還寫了另一封信。那是一封向美國軍方的辭職信。辭職的理由是諾曼底登陸的失敗。

Somehow we've lost that accountability. I've been heavily criticized because I called for the resignation of the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. We've got to start also holding people accountable, and we've got to reward people who succeed.

不知何故，我們的責任沒有落實。我一直飽受批評，因為我要求證券交易委員會的主席辭職。我們得讓人們（為自己的工作）負責，並獎勵那些（工作上）成功的人們。

But somehow in Washington today -- and I'm afraid on Wall Street -- greed is rewarded, excess is rewarded, and corruption -- or certainly failure to carry out our responsibility is rewarded.

然而，在今天的華盛頓——我恐怕華爾街也是，不知為何，貪婪得到獎勵，無度得到獎勵，而腐敗，或者無疑地說失職得到獎勵。

As president of the United States, people are going to be held accountable in my administration. And I promise you that that will happen.

（如果）我是美國總統，在我的管理下，人們將（為自己的工作）負責。我向你們保證那將實現。

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:23:05

LEHRER: Do you have something directly to say, Senator Obama, to Senator McCain about what he just said?

主持人：你有沒有一些對麥凱恩議員剛才所說的話直接要說的，奧巴馬議員？

OBAMA: Well, I think Senator McCain's absolutely right that we need more responsibility, but we need it not just when there's a crisis. I mean, we've had years in which the reigning economic ideology has been what's good for Wall Street, but not what's good for Main Street.

奧巴馬：嗯，我認為我們確實需要更多的責任（感），麥凱恩議員（在這點上）完全正確，但我們不應只在危機出現的時候才需要它（註：奧巴馬此言，已經在影射麥凱恩及執政的共和黨人在之前的不負責任，導致了現在的這場金融危機）。我指的是，在過去的數年時間裡，占統治地位的經濟思想總是考慮什麼對華爾街有利，而不是什麼對城鎮大街（上的人們）有利。

And there are folks out there who've been struggling before this crisis took place. And that's why it's so important, as we solve this short-term problem, that we look at some of the underlying issues that have led to wages and incomes for ordinary Americans to go down, the -- a health care system that is broken, energy policies that are not working, because, you know, 10 days ago, John said that the fundamentals of the economy are sound.

而且，在（金融）危機發生之前，就有那麼一些人在（辛苦地）掙扎了。這也是為什麼我們在解決這個短期（金融）問題的時候，看看一些深層次的問題是如此重要。這些問題讓普通美國人的工資和收入下降，讓醫療系統破碎，讓能源政策失效。因為……你知道，10天前，約翰（麥凱恩）還在說經濟的根本還是健康的。

（註：奧巴馬在這句話的最後提到「因為……」時，停頓了一下，他其實真正想說的是「就是像麥凱恩這樣的共和黨人導致了現在的金融問題」，但他需要仔細斟酌措辭，不能說得太過，以免被對手抓住把柄。麥凱恩其實也有苦衷，10天前他還沒有意識到金融危機是如此迅速地展現在了所有人面前，他還以為那些華爾街的投資銀行可以撐一段時間。也因為他還需要支撐住他背後的共和黨，需要修飾共和黨的執政能力。這使得他不得不硬著頭皮說「經濟根本還是健康的」。不料到了今天辯論的時候，幾大投資銀行相繼破產或轉行，他所說過的話也就成了奧巴馬所攻擊的把柄。這其實和某些人說「照片是真的」有異曲同工之妙。下面就看麥凱恩如何拆招了。）

LEHRER: Say it directly to him.

主持人：直接向他（麥凱恩）說。

OBAMA: I do not think that they are.

奧巴馬：我不認為經濟的根本是健康的。

LEHRER: Say it directly to him.

主持人：直接向他（麥凱恩）說。

OBAMA: Well, the -- John, 10 days ago, you said that the
fundamentals of the economy are sound. And...

奧巴馬：好的，約翰，10天前，你還在說經濟的根本還是健康的，而……

MCCAIN: Are you afraid I couldn't hear him?

麥凱恩：（笑對主持人）你擔心我聽不到他說話嗎？

(LAUGHTER)
（笑聲）

LEHRER: I'm just determined to get you all to talk to each
other. I'm going to try.

主持人：我只是想要讓你們倆互相交流。我想試試（笑）。

OBAMA: The -- and I just fundamentally disagree. And unless we are holding ourselves accountable day in, day out, not just when there's a crisis for folks who have power and influence and can hire lobbyists, but for the nurse, the teacher, the police officer, who, frankly, at the end of each month, they've got a little financial crisis going on.

奧巴馬：而我根本就不同意這點。除非我們不論什麼時候都讓我們（對我們的工作）負責，而不是在出現危機的時候。（這危機只是）讓某些有權力和影響力的人可以僱傭說客（而已），而坦白地說，對於護士、教師、警員，每個月的月末，都有著金融危機在上演（註：這裡指房貸）。

They're having to take out extra debt just to make their mortgage payments. We haven't been paying attention to them. And if you look at our tax policies, it's a classic example.

他們必須拿出額外的錢來償還抵押貸款。我們一直沒有注意到他們。但你們如果看看我們的稅收政策，那就是一個典型的例子（註：指稅收和房貸一樣，都在抽取著普通美國人的收入）。

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:23:20

LEHRER: So, Senator McCain, do you agree with what Senator Obama just said? And, if you don't, tell him what you disagree with.

主持人：那麼，麥凱恩議員，你同意奧巴馬議員剛才所說的嗎？如果你不同意，告訴他你不同意什麼。

MCCAIN: No, I -- look, we've got to fix the system. We've got fundamental problems in the system. And Main Street is paying a penalty for the excesses and greed in Washington, D.C., and in the Wall Street.

麥凱恩：（我）不同意。我……你看，我們得修理（我們的金融）系統。這個系統的根本有些問題，而城鎮大街（上的人們）正在為華盛頓和華爾街的無度和貪婪付出代價。

So there's no doubt that we have a long way to go. And, obviously, stricter interpretation and consolidation of the various regulatory agencies that weren't doing their job, that has brought on this crisis.

所以，毫不懷疑，我們有很長的路要走。而且，很明顯地，對各種各樣沒有做好他們工作而導致了這場（金融）危機的管理機構（實行）更加嚴格的整理和合併。

（註：好個太極推手。麥凱恩接過奧巴馬的咄咄逼人的鋒頭，順勢將這股力打向了金融管理機構。須知麥凱恩競選的一個主要口號就是他要規整政府部門，改整機構。麥凱恩努力讓大家把注意力集中在金融機構的失職上，而不是執政的共和黨上，可謂用心良苦。然則美國老百姓也不是傻子。實事求是地說，這次金融危機，作為執政黨的共和黨確有較大責任。麥凱恩這一搗漿糊，看來很難糊弄過去。）

But I have a fundamental belief in the goodness and strength of the American worker. And the American worker is the most productive, the most innovative. America is still the greatest producer, exporter and importer.

但我心中深信美國勞動人民的善良和力量。而且美國勞動人民是富有生產力和創造力的（人民）。美國仍然是（世界上）最大的生產國、出口國和進口國。

（註：當政客甜言蜜語地誇獎老百姓的能力時，就是要讓老百姓做牛做馬的時候了。麥凱恩寄希望於美國人民努力工作，把金融危機的洞給填實嘍。這一招實在是失策啊！佔人口大多數的美國工人不會吃這一套。而奧巴馬想要從大企業家和富翁身上剝層皮來填金融的大洞，顯然更能得到大多數美國人的歡心。從現在的支持率來看，也是如此。）

But we've got to get through these times, but I have a fundamental belief in the United States of America. And I still believe, under the right leadership, our best days are ahead of us.

但我們一定要熬過這段時間，我深信美利堅合眾國（能做到）。我還相信，在正確的領導下，幸福的生活就在我們前頭。

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:23:42

LEHRER: All right, let's go to the next lead question, which is essentially following up on this same subject.

主持人：好，讓我們進入下一個引導問題。這個引導問題實質上是第一個問題的深化。

And you get two minutes to begin with, Senator McCain. And using your word "fundamental," are there fundamental differences between your approach and Senator Obama's approach to what you would do as president to lead this country out of the financial crisis?

主持人：麥凱恩議員，（這）兩分鐘從你那裡開始。（我）用你的詞語「本質」。如果作為總統，領導這個國家走出經濟危機，你的方法和奧巴馬議員的方法有什麼本質上的區別？

MCCAIN: Well, the first thing we have to do is get spending under control in Washington. It's completely out of control. It's gone -- we have now presided over the largest increase in the size of government since the Great Society.

麥凱恩：呃，我們得做的第一件事情就是控制華盛頓（註：指美國政府）的開銷。它（開銷）完全無法控制了。它已經脫韁而出——我們現在是眼巴巴地看著（我們）建國以來政府規模最大的膨脹。

We Republicans came to power to change government, and government changed us. And the -- the worst symptom on this disease is what my friend, Tom Coburn, calls earmarking as a gateway drug, because it's a gateway. It's a gateway to out-of-control spending and corruption.

我們共和黨人擁有了改變政府的力量，而政府也改變了我們。而——這種病最壞的症狀，正如我的朋友，湯姆.科本所說，財政特別撥款是一種入門毒品，因為那是一扇門，一扇通向不受控制的花銷和腐敗的大門。

（註：麥凱恩這裡沒有說只有民主黨人有腐敗，而是坦誠說道共和黨人也有人中毒了。gateway drug: 有一種假設，認為服用不大容易上癮的藥品可能會引人服用更加危險的毒品甚至引人犯罪。香煙、酒精等常常被人們稱為gateway drug。我這裡把它翻譯為入門毒品。）

And we have former members of Congress now residing in federal prison because of the evils of this earmarking and pork-barrel spending.

我們國會的一些前成員，因為在財政撥款和地方建設經費上犯的錯誤，現在正蹲在聯邦監獄裡面。

You know, we spent $3 million to study the DNA of bears in Montana. I don't know if that was a criminal issue or a paternal issue, but the fact is that it was $3 million of our taxpayers' money. And it has got to be brought under control.

你知道嗎，我們花費了300萬美元，用在研究蒙大納州的熊的DNA上面。我不知道這究竟是（有人）犯罪還是家長式作風，但事實上是，那可是我們納稅人的300萬美元吶。那應該被控制住。

（註：蒙大納州：美國西北部與加拿大接壤的一個州。1889年被接納為美國第41個州。大部分地區通過1803年路易斯安那的購買歸屬美國，路易斯和克拉克在 1805年和1806年勘查了此地。經過多年在其他西部地區分裂之後在1864年組成蒙大納地區。赫勒拿是該州首府，比林斯是最大城市。人口 803,655）

As president of the United States, I want to assure you, I've got a pen. This one's kind of old. I've got a pen, and I'm going to veto every single spending bill that comes across my desk. I will make them famous. You will know their names.

（如果我）作為美國的總統，我要向你們保證——我有一隻鋼筆，這只有幾分舊了——我有一隻鋼筆，而我將會否決掉每一筆經過我辦公桌的開銷提議。我會讓它們臭名昭著。你們將知道它們的名字。

Now, Senator Obama, you wanted to know one of the differences. He has asked for $932 million of earmark pork-barrel spending, nearly a million dollars for every day that he's been in the United States Senate.

現在，奧巴馬議員，你想要知道我們的一個區別。他（奧巴馬）已經請求了9.32億美元的財政撥款，自他當上美國議員後的每一天幾乎都要走了100萬美元。

I suggest that people go up on the Web site of Citizens Against Government Waste, and they'll look at those projects.

我建議人們登陸反對政府浪費公民網，就會看到（奧巴馬）那些項目。

That kind of thing is not the way to rein in runaway spending in Washington, D.C. That's one of the fundamental differences that Senator Obama and I have.

那樣的事情不是讓華盛頓的開銷放慢下來的做法。這就是我和奧巴馬議員的一個本質的區別。

（註：麥凱恩終於亮牌了，且看奧巴馬下面如何應對。）

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:24:05

LEHRER: Senator Obama, two minutes.

主持人：奧巴馬議員，兩分鐘。

OBAMA: Well, Senator McCain is absolutely right that the earmarks process has been abused, which is why I suspended any requests for my home state, whether it was for senior centers or what have you, until we cleaned it up.

奧巴馬：呃，好的，特別撥款程序已經被濫用了，麥凱恩議員（在這一點上）完全正確。這也是為什麼我暫停了來自我家鄉的任何（撥款）申請，不論是為了老年中心還是諸如此類，直到我們（政府）有了盈餘為止。

（註： Earmark -> 在美國，Earmark指的是議員為他們的州或者地區所爭取到的特別撥款。每個州或地區的居民選出一個議員來代表他們的利益，而這個議員則會向國會爭取特別撥款來建設他們的家鄉。這些財政撥款來自於所有美國人的稅收。這些錢可稱得上是取之於民，用之於民。如果議員將其中一部分錢據為己有，就叫作 "pork barrel"。一些聯邦的議員已經為此進了大牢。）

And he's also right that oftentimes lobbyists and special interests are the ones that are introducing these kinds of requests, although that wasn't the case with me.

而且很多時候說客和特殊需要是引入這類（撥款）申請的源頭，他（麥凱恩）（在這一點上）也是正確的。然而我的情況卻有所不同。

But let's be clear: Earmarks account for $18 billion in last year's budget. Senator McCain is proposing -- and this is a fundamental difference between us -- $300 billion in tax cuts to some of the wealthiest corporations and individuals in the country, $300 billion.

讓我們把話說清楚：在去年的預算中，特別撥款佔了180億美元。麥凱恩議員建議——這是我們倆的一個本質上的區別——向某些這個國家上最為富有的企業和個人的3000億美元的減稅計劃，3000億美元。

Now, $18 billion is important; $300 billion is really important. And in his tax plan, you would have CEOs of Fortune 500 companies getting an average of $700,000 in reduced taxes, while leaving 100 million Americans out.

現在，180億美元重要；3000億美元則非常重要。在他（麥凱恩）的減稅計劃中，你會發現財富500強企業的CEO們平均減稅70萬美元，而一億美國人卻被排除在外。

So my attitude is, we've got to grow the economy from the bottom up. What I've called for is a tax cut for 95 percent of working families, 95 percent.

所以我的態度是，我們得讓經濟從底層增長起來。我所呼籲的是向百分之95的工薪家庭的減稅計劃，百分之95。

And that means that the ordinary American out there who's collecting a paycheck every day, they've got a little extra money to be able to buy a computer for their kid, to fill up on this gas that is killing them.

那意味著那些每天都在掙薪水普通美國人，會有一些額外的錢來給他們的孩子購買電腦，來（給他們的車）加滿那些要他們命的汽油。

And over time, that, I think, is going to be a better recipe for economic growth than the -- the policies of President Bush that John McCain wants to -- wants to follow.

而隨著時間的過去，我認為，（我的方案）將是讓經濟增長的更好的處方——比麥凱恩議員想要遵循的布什總統的政策更好。

LEHRER: Senator McCain?

主持人：麥凱恩議員？

MCCAIN: Well, again, I don't mean to go back and forth, but he...

麥凱恩：這個，我再說一次，我不是要來回扯皮，但是他……

(CROSSTALK)
（插話）

LEHRER: No, that's fine.

主持人：沒關係。

MCCAIN: Senator Obama suspended those requests for pork-barrel projects after he was running for president of the United States. He didn't happen to see that light during the first three years as a member of the United States Senate, $932 million in requests.

麥凱恩：奧巴馬議員在競選美國總統開始後就停止了那些撥款申請項目。而在他作為美國議會成員的前三年，沒有見過他良心發現，9.32億美元的申請啊。

（註：麥凱恩真夠陰的，這句話我認為是在誘導聽眾製造假象。只要仔細思考一下，就會知道奧巴馬之所以在競選總統後停止了撥款申請，很有可能是因為太忙了，沒有時間去國會辯論、爭取那些建設經費了。而麥凱恩這麼說乃是要誤導聽眾，讓大家以為是奧巴馬在競選總統後，為了裝純潔，而暫時放棄了撥款申請。）

Maybe to Senator Obama it's not a lot of money. But the point is that -- you see, I hear this all the time. "It's only $18 billion." Do you know that it's tripled in the last five years? Do you know that it's gone completely out of control to the point where it corrupts people? It corrupts people.

也許對奧巴馬議員來說那算不上多少錢。但問題是——你看，我總是聽到這個:（又尖又長的挖苦音調）「不過是180億美元」。你知道那（特別撥款）在過去五年裡翻了三倍嗎？你知道那已經脫韁而出無法控制，以至於腐化官員了嗎？它腐化著人們。

That's why we have, as I said, people under federal indictment and charges. It's a system that's got to be cleaned up.

那就是為什麼，如我所說，一些人遭到聯邦起訴和控告。這是一個急需修整的系統。

I have fought against it my career. I have fought against it. I was called the sheriff, by the -- one of the senior members of the Appropriations Committee. I didn't win Miss Congeniality in the United States Senate.

在我的職業生涯中，我一直在與之（腐敗）鬥爭。我被一位財政撥款局的高級成員稱為「縣官」。我可不是美國議會中的好好先生。

顯示全部樓層 · 發表於 2008-10-23 21:24:22

Now, Senator Obama didn't mention that, along with his tax cuts, he is also proposing some $800 billion in new spending on new programs.

麥凱恩：現在，奧巴馬議員沒有提到，伴隨著他的減稅計劃，還有用於新項目的8000億美元的花費。

Now, that's a fundamental difference between myself and Senator Obama. I want to cut spending. I want to keep taxes low. The worst thing we could do in this economic climate is to raise people's taxes.

那就是我和奧巴馬議員的一個本質區別。我想要消減（政府）花費。我想要保持低稅率。在當前的經濟氣候下，最壞的事情就是從人民那裡增加稅收了。

OBAMA: I -- I don't know where John is getting his figures. Let's just be clear. What I do is I close corporate loopholes, stop providing tax cuts to corporations that are shipping jobs overseas so that we're giving tax breaks to companies that are investing here in the United States. I make sure that we have a health care system that allows for everyone to have basic coverage.

奧巴馬：我——我不知道約翰（麥凱恩）從哪裡得到他那些數據。讓我們說清楚點。我所做的事情是關閉公司的漏洞，停止對那些向海外輸出工作（機會）的企業的減稅。這樣我們才可以給在美國本土投資的企業減稅。我確保我們有一個讓每個人都得到基本覆蓋的醫療系統。

I think those are pretty important priorities. And I pay for every dime of it.

我認為這些是要優先考慮的重要的事情。我會為之花出每一分錢。

But let's go back to the original point. John, nobody is denying that $18 billion is important. And, absolutely, we need earmark reform. And when I'm president, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely.

但讓我們回到開始的問題。約翰（麥凱恩），沒有人否認180億美元的重要性。而且，我們也的的確確需要改革專項撥款（制度）。當我是總統時，我將會一行一行地（檢查撥款提議以）確保我們沒有不智地亂花錢。

But the fact is that eliminating earmarks alone is not a recipe for how we're going to get the middle class back on track.

但問題是僅僅消除專項撥款，並不是讓中產階級回到正常軌道上來的辦法。

OBAMA: And when you look at your tax policies that are directed primarily at those who are doing well, and you are neglecting people who are really struggling right now, I think that is a continuation of the last eight years, and we can't afford another four.

你看看你的稅收政策，它主要對準的是那些（工作）做得好的人們，而你還在忽視那些現在正在掙扎著的人們。我認為那（麥凱恩的政策）是過去八年的延續，我們不能承受再一個四年了。

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